Curse

Star Gazer · Aug 31, 2007, 08:54 PM // 20:54

hey, HEY! you better quit all this hero/hench party thing! Anet does NOT believe that this is the way it is supposed to be played! PUG NOW OR RISK A PERMABAN (not temp)!!231!!1

I am sure we will see some EULA update that states we must pug atleast once every 4 hours. Maybe ANet doesnt get the hint that most people prefer to use heros and henchies like myself. Since the beginning of this game, I NEVER have pugged. I tried once, when Thunderhead Keep was new to me. I failed at that mission at the hands of pugs about 30 times. Never again will I pug.

L-I-E-S · Aug 31, 2007, 11:14 PM // 23:14

I never bother. If I fail to solo it, I usually take a break, rethink my strategy, and make a second attempt. The only reason to bring anyone is if there is more than one object to carry.

If someone is really having a tough time with a mission, I sometimes let them tag along. I am a solo artist. Everything can be soloed... especially with Heroes now, that's not even fair.

miyau · Sep 01, 2007, 12:03 AM // 00:03

I'm new to the game but already I've learned not to group with people.

I don't group with anyone but my husband or henchmen for the simple fact that my first character I made was nearly dragged through to post-searing. I had read some warnings on a couple sites. Sure enough the guy was up by Tydus, managed to leave group in time and got a hateful taunting whisper about it. I moved that character on eventually to post searing when I was ready and started a new one with just one profession, but it has made me extremely wary of grouping with anyone.

I don't know enough about the game to know what else can be forced on me by another player like that.

Omega X · Sep 01, 2007, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Gazer

hey, HEY! you better quit all this hero/hench party thing! Anet does NOT believe that this is the way it is supposed to be played! PUG NOW OR RISK A PERMABAN (not temp)!!231!!1

I am sure we will see some EULA update that states we must pug atleast once every 4 hours.

The day they start doing that is the day I quit.

Shmanka · Sep 01, 2007, 02:00 AM // 02:00

Rangers with Oath Shot Metoer Shower and Monks with Mind Freeze... I'll take Dunkoro.

UnChosen · Sep 01, 2007, 03:22 AM // 03:22

Ya, I've had a lot of problems finding people to do anything at all ever since nightfall arrived. Its sad when the game is labeled as a CORPG (or MMORPG) only to have 99% of the people not being CO/MMO, with the remaining 1% being forced to follow due to lack of people, or wait forever for everything...sigh.

Hope ANet won't make the same mistake for GW2.

Lorden · Sep 01, 2007, 05:53 AM // 05:53

Sadly, 84% of the PvE community that PUG's is really bad at understanding how to use skills that are effective together. Heroes will forever be better.

I always run with 6 Eles and me and my g/f as monks.

Legendary Shiz · Sep 01, 2007, 06:00 AM // 06:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shmanka

Rangers with Oath Shot Metoer Shower and Monks with Mind Freeze... I'll take Dunkoro.

Bingo. If PuGs had half a clue how to play the game, people wouldn't mind playing with them.

You'd be amazed at some of the things you'll see in PuGs. And the people just don't want your input on their lame build, weather you phrase it nicely or not.

Jin doesn't talk back.

Apharot · Sep 01, 2007, 07:58 AM // 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

Im a very effective leader, but there's only as much as you can do with bad quality team.

Let me tell you something from PvP in RA. Lava map. 2 leavers in my team, so it was me as assassin plus ele VS monk+rt+r+ one more. 2v4, exactly. Now, I explained the strategy to teammate, we did guerrilla tactic and it worked. We won. 2v4. With them having a monk. This would NOT be possible if I had a full team of 4 players because those 2 more players mean 200% more chance there's someone who is both clueless and just can't follow the team. I used to draw stuff on minimap after some teams didn't listen to what I typed. All in vain. Really, some people are good, some are not. If they ain't you can be the best leader in the world, but there's nothing you can do. You can be the best soccer coach in the world but if your team sucks your effort will only go as far.

And that's true, however, I'm still wondering how many people complaining on here are pointing at PUGs because they themselves can't lead. Personally, I think both options suck. I just ran with h/h and damned if at least one of them doesn't run off, or not listen to orders, and gets me killed. I say "Go to this point" one stops and attacks an approaching group, thus getting me in a cross fire, when they are all set on defense.

artay · Sep 01, 2007, 09:19 AM // 09:19

Why bother baking something in an old wooden oven that hardly does its job when you can bake it in one of those new ovens that you can customize the skills of?

MrFuzzles · Sep 01, 2007, 10:30 AM // 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apharot

And that's true, however, I'm still wondering how many people complaining on here are pointing at PUGs because they themselves can't lead. Personally, I think both options suck. I just ran with h/h and damned if at least one of them doesn't run off, or not listen to orders, and gets me killed. I say "Go to this point" one stops and attacks an approaching group, thus getting me in a cross fire, when they are all set on defense.

It's not really newbies/crappy builds I mind myself, but people's inability and unwillingness to communicate, work as a team, and compromise (bringing Winter instead of ignite arrows in hell's precipice, for example)

If a ranger pings his 5 spirits and I go "hey, I think it would be better if you didn't bring this and that. It hurts us more than it helps", and the ranger goes "oh, I didn't know spirits applied to both allies and enemies. I've only been playing for a couple of days", I consider our chances of success to be MUCH greater than if our team consists of "good" builds but are being played by people who overextend, assume they can idle in searing heat because we have a monk, refuse to bring wild blow for shiro because their knockdown/aoe build is "best", refuse to bring winter for Hell's Precipice (even though they already have 12 WS) because it's a "noob skill", and so on.

My guild consists of about a handful of friends who know eachother from outside the game. Only me and one other guy have logged more than 200 hours in GW, the rest are "noobs" by most definitions. When we have 8 people online and form a party, we still manage to finish most missions on the first attempt (and master's reward after another couple of tries), simply because people are willing to read team chat and organize simple plans without going "hey man stfu you play your way I play mine k???" while spamming fertile season as we try for the time bonus reward.

I keep using ranger spirits as examples as it's the most obvious example of skills and builds which can so directly hurt the team more than helping it. Imo, a ranger shouldn't bring any spirits (save favorable winds - and even that is arguable considering archer monsters) without letting the team know and giving them a chance to adapt (let alone express that they don't want it) first. If a ranger joins my team, I'll always ask him to ping his build for this very reason. If people start with the "you play your way, I play mine" crap then.. boot to the head.

Evilsod · Sep 01, 2007, 11:09 AM // 11:09

Speaking of Ranger spirits... i'm pretty sure it was mainly to just hastle everyone, but for some stupid reason a Luxon Ranger had brought Winter, Nature's Renewal, Primal Echoes, Tranquillity, Winnowing, Muddy Terrain, etc. Then he just walked around spamming them... either he was there to grief people or he was a complete moron. Those spirits basically screw EVERYONE over.
Thats the sort of Ranger i don't awnt to come across in a PvE team.

There is a difference between newbies and idiots... the newbies are willing to learn, be it from guildies or random people. The idiots think there build is god no matter how bad it is (people here remember the FoW Narrowmindedness thread by Populationcontrol right?).

bhavv · Sep 01, 2007, 11:53 AM // 11:53

I just remembered a valid point to all the people that say 'You only need two people for a futt hero team'.

Everyone that I have ever played PVE with, be it a guildie or pug has never had fully set up heores like mine, nor do they have all the skills unlocked like I do.

If I have all skills unlocked and can set up my heroes to any build in the game, why cant other people?

Oh the answer - People that can usually play alone because its far better then wasting time on the bog standard PuG monk ......

'Lolz whats LoD?' ..... 'I dont have that, I only have WoH and Healing breeze' ..... Can we go now?? CAN WE GO NOW? GOGOGOGOGO!!! OMG PLEASE JUST GO

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

There is a difference between newbies and idiots... the newbies are willing to learn, be it from guildies or random people. The idiots think there build is god no matter how bad it is (people here remember the FoW Narrowmindedness thread by Populationcontrol right?).

That is the complete truth. People that are in my guild and alliance that dont have the skills are always willing to go get them. Chances are they dont have enough money, or cant find a seller to get a tome for the elite, but they manage to get the other skills fine. So there I'll take a WoH monk but with 7 usefull skills and WoH, or a prot monk who only has life sheath but the other skills are fine. At least they try to improve themselves as best they can.

With pugs they are unwilling to make any changes.

/7 heroes yetplzkthxbyxxx.

Belonah15 · Sep 01, 2007, 02:12 PM // 14:12

I do not PUG, because:

1) Zero concept of teamwork or synergy.
2) Elite Ub3r Know-it-alls that got no clue besides a PVX-wiki build and to rush every mob in sight. They normally the ones that says: "ping build" and then make silly suggestions or kick players for not having an elite on bar.
3) Rushers ... after loading the map they rush every mob and rely on monks to be their tanks. And when (not if) they die, they lay the hate on the monk.
4) The evil of PVX-wiki - copy and paste a build without having any clue of how to use it. Ask them what is their chain and hear anything from nothing to hate speech.
5) Leavers and Quitters - when things go bad they leave. No concept of retreat / regroup / rethink. I can hench many missions with only 4, but very different when trying to mission with only 4 players.
6) Rear Enders ... those who hang in the back out of trouble and only scoop loot. They do not bring anything to the party, and rather make others do all the work. Thats when I stop dead in my tracks, and refuse to do anything further till they catch up. The worst of these normally stays at starting point and hope no-one notices so they catch a free mission ride.

What is the big hangup about having an elite skill on bar anyway? If the person has a good build and knows how to use it, the elite does not make a big difference. An example is having Searing Flames on their bar, but no energy management. I have tested this a few times on the ping-ur-build types - I loaded a assorted bunch of skills on my bar and put SF in 1st slot. I found 1 person out of about 10 that told me my skill build sux.

Heroes / Henches:
1) Has better reflexes and energy management skill than human players.
2) They follow orders.
3) They do not leave or quit.
4) They never rag my builds.
5) They cheered for me when I finished NF.

All in all I play GW for fun and relaxation as a PvE (& GvG) game, not for the people. To me its just a very good RPG game that happens to be online based, and have other real people in towns.

klrk · Sep 01, 2007, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Heroes / Henches:
1) Has better reflexes and energy management skill than human players.
2) They follow orders.
3) They do not leave or quit.
4) They never rag my builds.
5) They cheered for me when I finished NF.
that's right
i hate people who keep using their stupid builds (i'm not very strict in builds but warrior with meteor shower , ele who uses spirits aint make you feel good )
and one more thing no rage quit involved when i play with hench/heroes
i can waste up to few hours just to find a good team and pray they wont rquit

Pevil Lihatuh · Sep 01, 2007, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Been playing 28 months now, not pugged after the first 2.

I used to play through with my then-boyfriend, any random people and, if we couldn't find someone for the gaps, henchies. Generally we'd take us 2 and henchies for non-missions, and pugs for the missions. We had a few... interesting groups that I've posted about numerous times on these forums and won't bore you with again

But we eventually gave up on pugs. Last I pugged was just before I ascended.

Luckily some close friends from another forum got the game, soon caught us up and we completed Prophecies with them. Then he lost interest and although i had a great guild from another game, I took to playing with henchies. I even learnt a very crude form of controlling them before hench/hero controls were implemented. I could certainly control them from running after my friend when he was pulling things on the rare occasions we grouped together.

So needless to say, Heroes are my..er...heroes. They go where I tell them, use the skills I tell them to. Ok, so decent real people are better than heroes but they're hard to find, guildmates are often busy and the friends from the forum have stopped playing.

Not to mention that I hate people who are all "zomg you must have this exact skillset/armourset/weaponset/attributeset or we'll boot you" or that have no clue and then blame you for it. I'm all for original builds, I constantly try random ones and try to avoid the overused ones or have my own take on them, but I'm NOT up for a warrior who runs into mobs with pre-sear armour, runs out of the monks reach, dies, curses us all out for being n00bs, threatens to leave, bugs us for another 15 minutes before finally leaving and then continues to moan at us over whisper. Oh and don't get me started on the "gogogogogogogo" spammers. And random invites! AAAAAAHHHHH

However I am all for those who realise when they make a mistake, apologise or joke about it, don't blame everyone else and is willing to listen to people who know how to do a mission, or have an idea for a strategy after we've wiped a couple of times.

Zakarr · Sep 01, 2007, 05:00 PM // 17:00

ArenaNet should remove henchmen and heroes from some missions or maybe remove them from all hard mode missions. Maybe add more human player only missions? PvE is not fun with AI party. It is like playing single player game.

The whole skill system is too versatile for most random parties. People get confused and then get bored and pick something randomly. We need pre-made PvE builds. Can't force all people to think if they don't want to. Those who want to think, have no problems to pick good skill combinations.

GW's PvE potential compared to WoW's PvE lies in that versatile skill system which offer huge amount of different and interesting roles for players. Unfortunately, if you want to take all of it, every player must be with you. Otherwise you are stuck with some general skill combinations which focus mostly for maximum DPS and healing. I don't know if max DPS + healing is always the best choice for PvE time-wise. PUGs never use anythig else or there is then those very weird and weak combinations which are just waste of time.

I don't want to start GW vs WoW discussion but at least in my realm people solo most quests anyway. Only dungeons are for extra people or you can also pass them. Mostly new players want to go everywhere with other people but if you are forced to accept human players for something like those dungeons, they will come and no one complain. If someone can't play, he will be kicked and new one will be picked. GW rely too much to AI. That is the core of the problem why GW feels single player right now.

bryann380 · Sep 01, 2007, 05:09 PM // 17:09

I quote directly from the Prophecies game box itself... warrior pic side under the flap in the section titled It's Your Adventure.

"Join with friends or play solo with a band of skillful henchmen."

So you see, it is NOT a requirement to team up with real people all the time. Yes, it would be more fun to chat with them and all but not all players are smart and/or friendly.

Chicken Ftw · Sep 01, 2007, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Step 1: Go to Campfire.
Step 2: Look at some of the builds posted.
Step 3: Comprehend why nobody PUGs.
Step 4: Topic over.

Can't trust anyone to bring a viable build, nor can you trust them to listen. Guildies, friends and heroes on the other hand... <3

gloria vander belt · Sep 01, 2007, 05:31 PM // 17:31

why pug when heros and henchies are 75% more efficient and effective!!

the only time i pug is with a close online freind or my guild, but the rules are as stated "I'm in charge what i say goes and i say Heros and henchies fill in the 2-6 other spots(depending on area)

lemme just tell u why i dont pug-Glint NM failed 3 times(bonus) in a row cus no 1 else could interupt, went in with henchies not only did i do bonus but i flew threw the entire mission, and if A-Net ban's me for not using Pug groups then good ridence to the game, i should not have to play a game where i am forced against my will, this is not prison sex its a game!!!!